0:01:00 – Speaker 2
Greetings and salutations and welcome to Embrace your Storm. I’m Jonathan Nadeau, your host, and I have an awesome interview today. Today I’m speaking with Chris and he is from Benson Amps and his last name is Benson and you can tie the two together. But, chris, thanks for joining us today. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, yeah, definitely Thanks for having me. I appreciate your time. We were talking a lot before the interview and, yeah, I just appreciate you coming on before you had any actual content to listen to. It’s greatly appreciated. But so now, chris, people have heard the first interview. They kind of have an understanding of where I’m coming from and we talked a little bit, like I said before the interview, and you know we were coming from here with Tornado and Embracing your Storm. So when you created Benson Amps, what was your goal in mind? You obviously had an idea of a sound you wanted to produce, because you have created your own amp. So what were you looking to do with Benson Amps? See here.
0:01:55 – Speaker 3
So honestly, it’s been kind of, yeah, the goalposts have been kind of shifting all along. I didn’t set out, when I designed my first amp I didn’t think I was going to have an amplifier company, so I kind of designed it for what I was looking for in a guitar amp. So, and then that’s kind of informed, like all the designs since, like well, is this something that you want? Is this something that you would use for making music? So everything is sort of custom made for me and you know, I’ve taken the conceit that you know, if I like it, maybe other people will like it.
0:02:39 – Speaker 2
That’s really awesome that you get to make an amp that you yourself and enjoy, but, by extension, a lot of other people get to enjoy it also.
0:02:50 – Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, that’s been the whole whole thing.
0:02:54 – Speaker 2
That’s awesome.
0:02:56 – Speaker 3
Yeah, I think I was trying to describe the sound to you a little earlier.
0:03:01 – Speaker 2
And yeah, yeah, like the sound you’re trying to, you know that that you wanted, hence why you’re making your own amp.
0:03:07 – Speaker 3
Yeah, you know, I’ve always been fascinated with things that are that don’t sound distorted. But they sound good and the reason they sound good is that they’re distorting in a very specific way. And it’s just. You know, you can add a lot of harmonic distortion to a piece of music before you even start to realize it, and then you know, even once you realize it, it doesn’t become unpleasant. I’m kind of looking for that euphonic kind of distortion out of out of the amps. And you know, the question is it dirty, is it clean? You know it was dirty, clean. We’re kind of going for dirty, clean sound. Yeah, and I think I was using some analogies, you know, for you know flavor, cooking or whatever. And I was describing some of their amps like Fender’s, sounding sweet and sugary, it’s really easy to kind of listen to. And then other other amps, like metal amps, are sort of like atomic fireballs and I think we’re sort of like sweet and sour chicken, mm, hmm.
0:04:10 – Speaker 2
Okay, yeah, I see that.
0:04:14 – Speaker 3
You kind of can’t really tell what’s going on but you like it Now with the, with the.
0:04:17 – Speaker 2
we didn’t talk about this before the interview now with the, like the what kind of tubes are you using in the amp and how many tubes are you using, like what’s kind of the tubes up in there? I mean if you can tell like I don’t know if you have any. You see, sauce or not?
0:04:30 – Speaker 3
No, that’s on the website. So we? The main power tube I use is a six, v, six. I don’t know why I think they’re. I just prefer that sound, especially for American style. But I’ve also brushed out into like kind of more European style tubes like pentodes. Okay, so I yell 84s and 34s as well. We don’t do six, all sixes and all. Almost all the preamp tubes are just regular old 12 eggs, sevens. Being a musician, I wanted people who are on tour to be able to just buy what they needed to throw in their amp wherever they were in any.
0:05:12 – Speaker 2
that’s cool, that’s cool.
0:05:13 – Speaker 3
Yeah, that’s a good idea.
0:05:15 – Speaker 2
Actually, that’s a good design.
0:05:17 – Speaker 3
They’re all just guitar center, you know yeah, yeah, no, I hear.
0:05:21 – Speaker 2
Yeah, it makes sense. Like you said, if you’re traveling, you’re gigging and your tubes break, like what are you going to do?
0:05:26 – Speaker 3
Yeah, so it’s sort of a. I firmly believe that sound comes from the design more than the components.
0:05:36 – Speaker 2
And so you can. Actually, I’d like to hear more about that.
0:05:39 – Speaker 3
Yeah, so you know the whole question about why something sounds the way it does, or a piece of gear specifically, is it the capacitors and transformers and resistors and like the actual types of materials those are made out of, or is it? Can you take an amp schematic and just put you know the opposite, you know opposite components that you would normally put in and will it sound about the same? And the answer is usually yes, I mean. So I think people get obsessed with components because it’s a lot harder.
It’s a lot harder to change the design of an amp than it is to change the tubes. So people get obsessed with oh well, this tube is how you get that sound Like. Well, if I change the capacitor value, it’s going to sound completely different. So yeah, I’m a big proponent of design over components. That being said, we use really fancy components because the components do make a little bit of a difference.
0:06:38 – Speaker 2
Sure, sure. That’s interesting. I like that.
0:06:42 – Speaker 3
But yeah, but when it comes to tubes, it’s not like I’m going to, you know, put some crazy. You know German tube, right, okay, I’m going to put it into the amp because I want people to use them.
0:06:51 – Speaker 2
Yeah, no, it makes sense. That makes sense. The one thing that I like that when we’re talking about kind of the sound of the amp before the interview was, I don’t know, you were kind of talking about the distortion where, like there’s distortion before you even hear it and then there’s this other type of distortion that gives us this three dimensional kind of I don’t remember how you were going into it, but which I’d wanted to go into in a second. But what I was going to say is it made me realize, like the way you’re explaining it it sounds like you ramp it, like almost anyone that you know is going to play your amp. They’re going to plug, you know, their guitar into your amp. Them interpreting your amp, you know, through their instrument almost sounds like if they look hard enough or try hard enough, they’re going to find what they’re looking for.
Maybe, Well, I shouldn’t say everyone, but it just sounds like the flexibility of it and just knowing that it’s tubes and you know, knowing from the way players can attack, you know their instrument, just their. Each player has their own way. They play their instrument they’re. You know, they have their own interpretation. That’s going to come out through the amp, you know, and through the tubes.
0:07:55 – Speaker 3
What one thing that I’ve noticed with my amps. First of all, they’ll make bad instruments sound bad. They’ll make bad pedals sound bad, and we have the experience all the time where someone you know, I love your amp, but it ruined my pedal for me because I could actually do this doing and I had to get another pedal, or you know whatever. Yeah usually not that bumped because they get to buy a pedal. So yeah they. Where was I spinning off into?
0:08:27 – Speaker 2
You can make a bad, a bad guitar. Oh, yeah, yeah.
0:08:31 – Speaker 3
So the funny thing, so I bring these things to Nam, which is the North American music manufacturers or merchants association kind of meetings or before the pandemic, and it was really funny because some, some players would, would step up and they would, they wouldn’t play any differently through my amp than they would their normal, you know, the normal one when trying it out. And then others would actually respond to what they were hearing the amp doing and those players loved it, whereas the first type of player that didn’t actually change what they were doing.
0:09:04 – Speaker 2
Yes, yes, this is frustrating.
0:09:06 – Speaker 3
This doesn’t respond like my other one.
0:09:09 – Speaker 2
That yeah, you’re almost kind of making my point then, because that’s what I’m saying. I think, if if you’re stubborn might be the wrong word, but if you’re don’t understand what the amp is doing and you’re trying to, you know, smash it, you know everything, everything looks like it needs a hammer, kind of thing Then you’re not going to get what you want out of it. But, like you said, if those musicians realize like, oh wait, there’s something else going on here, like let me, let me maybe not smash my string as hard, or whatever it is you know, and then they might be like, oh, I see what’s going on here, and and I and you know they, they’re able to maneuver with the amp. And yeah, that weren’t there before.
0:09:47 – Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly, it’s a most am start like that for, for whatever reason, most am start like that. So they’re used to just plugging in to like here I’m going to shred now and with mine. You know, I remember watching Bill Frizzell try one of my amps out and I think he played two sets of the Aladdin here in Portland. Bill Frizzell or not? No, I don’t, I’m sorry. He’s like, he’s kind of this well known kind of jazz guitarist. Oh nice, he’s almost just as well known for, like his, the tone of his guitar.
0:10:19 – Speaker 2
Okay, awesome, check him out for now. Yeah, he’s amazing.
0:10:23 – Speaker 3
But he usually plays Fenders and you know, does, does the sugar thing.
0:10:28 – Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
0:10:29 – Speaker 3
And so I watched him play two sets and you know the entire first set. You can tell he was a little uncomfortable playing the app. I was like, oh man, he’s, he’s trying to play it like his friend and it’s like, okay, well, maybe this isn’t you know his thing. And the second set he came out and I could tell he was far starting to pick up on how to actually, yeah, play that like he’s starting to interact with it, and it was really cool to see it was from the audience. Um, and this packed theater, this guy kind of like having this conversation with, negotiating with this guitar in the fire, that’s awesome. Um, yeah, I mean it’s, it’s, it’s a weird thing about about what we do, and I’m not really sure why that is, but it’s just kind of how it is so one thing I want to we kind of gloss, or skipped over this a little bit.
0:11:20 – Speaker 2
You have like building guitar amps is not in your realm at all. At one point you’re going to school as an english major. You want, you want to talk a little bit about that. How you got into, you know the carpentry and then that led you to like because because people hearing this are going to be like what? Like this guy didn’t start off, like like he wasn’t born into, like some amp building family or whatever, like yeah you guys have to hit.
You guys have to hear this guy’s story. This is the day and age that we live in. So you know, I don’t know where you want to go with it, chris, but you know it’s, it’s all yours like. Let him know. He kind of stumbled I shouldn’t say stumbled into this. You were, you were perfectly, you were perfectly led into it. But yeah.
0:12:02 – Speaker 3
Yeah, it’s weird. No, it’s, it’s. It was kind of stumbling, but you know, in retrospect it seems like it was just the perfect confluence of events and personality.
So um, yeah, so I was kind of like a black sheep growing up. Uh, come from a family of scientists and I’ve left my family. They’ve all done very well, um, but you know, I was a musician grown up and they, they were, uh didn’t totally understand it and in fact they’re like you know, they didn’t even really let me get it, get into guitar amplifiers or anything like that. Even though I was even back then I was like the only thing I wanted to do is play through distortion yeah you know, in high school, right?
that’s probably why I ended up doing this whole thing. Um so no, seriously no, I I’m.
0:12:53 – Speaker 2
That’s why I’m laughing, because I’m like you had all this pent up like aggression.
0:12:56 – Speaker 3
You’re like so, you know, got into, uh, I was playing in bands and stuff in high school. Um went off to college, uh became like a, an english major, kind of writing kind of person, at the same time playing in bands, still, you know, touring around the east coast and whatnot. Uh ended up moving out to seattle, uh, and getting married to my wife who met in college after after college and the band’s breaking up and everything. And you know, I was an english major so the only job I could find was being a carpenter. Um, well, started as a labor and eventually became kind of a journey level uh, carpenter, um, just working on houses and doing that whole thing and and still playing in bands the whole time.
And let’s see, we went on a long road trip at some point, came back and it’s like kind of bands were winding down. Around that time we decided to quit smoking cigarettes and I needed something to do with my nervous energy. And around the same time I had just played my first tube amp in some rehearsal space somewhere and I was like, oh, I need one of these. I got to, decided to try to build one. So instead of smoking ciggies, I just got really into reading about tube amps and started to try to learn how to build my own and kind of do a DIY and eventually I succeeded after a few months, and maybe it was more than that.
Anyways, I got really into that. Then I went, you know, put a pin in the amp stuff and went to grad school for education, finished that in about a year and a half, decided it wasn’t for me. At the same time, the job market was completely destroyed. It was 2008. And went to go work as a tube amp technician for Varela and Amps in Seattle and happened to learn from an analog engineer you know, electrical engineer my friend.
Ben and got a bunch of other theory that I’d been missing before and got into amps again. And yeah, that’s kind of the whole. Yeah, those are all the jobs and experiences that I had there.
0:15:21 – Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, so before you became that amp tech, you had already built kind of your first working amp that you did all on your own right. And then, yeah, I had built a few and had modified other ones, okay. And then so when you got this other job, like you said, it kind of filled in the blanks of some other kind of knowledge you’re kind of missing. You’re like, oh wait, now this makes a little more sense.
0:15:41 – Speaker 3
Absolutely yeah.
0:15:42 – Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, no, dude, that’s not. And so after you kind of you got that job, like this part. That’s why I was saying, like I wouldn’t say you stumbled into it, you were like led perfectly, perfectly into this kind of next part, like it was a friend of yours that his friend wanted to commission you to build an amp for him. And so you started doing that. But then this person that you commissioned the amp for they were like hey man, you need to do this as a full-time gig. Yeah yeah.
You need to make these amps full-time. And then that guy was like, let me help you. Like that’s just crazy dude.
0:16:16 – Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, it’s nuts.
0:16:19 – Speaker 2
It is so great, like it’s awesome and crazy, but it’s like that’s the day and age we live in, man, and like it’s just so cool that you were like man, you saw that Fender 2.0, and you’re like I need something like this. But you’re like, but not this. You know, like I need something, but this isn’t it. Like you were like I’m gonna have to build it myself because I know what I want. And then you went and did it Like it’s awesome. And then, like I said, because you had this sound in you that you wanted to hear other people get, now get to enjoy that amp too, which is awesome.
0:16:48 – Speaker 3
Yeah, it’s pretty crazy.
0:16:50 – Speaker 2
Yeah, like so how long have you been building the amps and stuff, like, what kind of models do you have Like talk about some of them so everyone can kind of hear about some of your stuff.
0:17:00 – Speaker 3
The amp that kind of started the business is a design I actually made back at my AmpTec job and that was the Monarch amp and kind of all the other amps are based off of that in one way or another.
0:17:16 – Speaker 2
Okay.
0:17:17 – Speaker 3
So you know different wattages, different loudnesses, sizes.
0:17:21 – Speaker 2
Okay.
0:17:22 – Speaker 3
I think we have let’s see one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, I think seven regular amp models that are all different variants of that first thing, and then we have a couple of spring reverb units as well.
0:17:37 – Speaker 2
Oh, nice yeah. And then a bunch of effects, fiddles as well, oh, I was gonna ask actually did you ever bench off and do a effects pedal too, since you’re doing the amp stuff?
0:17:46 – Speaker 3
Yeah, it was kind of. Yeah, I was really. I was interested in pedals as well and I think I had like a little baby pedal company for a second and Robert Keely, a well-known pedal maker, oh yeah, I think he came to visit my shop once and you know, he was like hey, what’s that? I was like, oh, this is a thing that we used to make, Plected it, and he was like, oh, this is great. And took it home and he was raving until all of his employees about it for a while and they kept telling me is like. Eventually he called me up. He’s like hey, man, if you ever want to make a pedal, let me know, we’ll manufacture it for you.
0:18:21 – Speaker 2
Dude, how cool is that.
0:18:24 – Speaker 3
Yeah, it was pretty sweet man that is so cool. Yeah.
0:18:30 – Speaker 2
When he walked in your shop where you’re like, oh my God, it’s Robert Keely. Like did you know, like who he was, or whatever. Oh yeah, I’d known about him.
0:18:37 – Speaker 3
since you know, since I got into it, I’d know you know he’s a legend.
0:18:42 – Speaker 2
Right, exactly, I just wasn’t sure if, like you know, because sometimes people you know without the public or whatever, like people like that, like I wouldn’t know, you know, sometimes maybe you wouldn’t recognize him or whatever you know. But yeah, I just wasn’t sure, if you’re just like I can’t believe, we just walked in my disor.
0:18:57 – Speaker 3
Oh, it’s really humbling because you know he’s got this giant facility and a bunch of employees and he walks into. At that point I think I had like maybe six or seven people and we were like a pirate ship. It was crazy Because, you know, I didn’t know. You know as much as I knew about guitar amps. I didn’t really know much about business or you know yeah yeah, but yeah that it’s his fault. We have we have.
0:19:21 – Speaker 2
That’s so funny, that is so funny. So what was, what was that pedal thing? What was that one that he that he’s looking at? I was like, oh, this is really cool. Do you remember what it was?
0:19:30 – Speaker 3
Yeah, it was. It was an octave fuzz Nice that I designed.
0:19:34 – Speaker 2
Oh, is that because you’re a Jimi Hendrix fan that?
0:19:38 – Speaker 3
was actually because that was more of like a hardcore and yeah, just weird experimental.
0:19:46 – Speaker 2
Okay, that’s cool. Yeah, yeah, I get that, I get that.
0:19:49 – Speaker 3
Jimmy Hendrix was. You know that led to some other puddle designs, but that was purely Northwest, just aggressive music Like just you know.
0:19:58 – Speaker 2
get fired from your singer-songwriter gig there you go yeah, oh man, so that is an awesome story. Man Like and it’s so funny, like he got you to, you know, or his company even got you to make the pedals, just like, hey, man, if you’re going to make them, I’ll, I’ll make. Actually, just make them, it’s funny. He wanted to take some of the load off for you just to, just so you make them, you know.
0:20:21 – Speaker 3
Yeah, I mean he doesn’t make them for free, but oh yeah, I’m sure he doesn’t, but it was really really kind of him to you know even and he’s really good at that. He’s. He’s good at like finding people who I don’t know, like I think I make pretty good pedals and I feel like I should have been helped and he was good at recognizing that. I think it was one of his gift, gifts.
0:20:44 – Speaker 2
Definitely. That’s awesome you got. Do you have any plans like in the, you know, in the this upcoming year, here in 2022, any new products or whatever you might be working on?
0:20:55 – Speaker 3
Let’s see we’re coming out with an actual. We haven’t had a base amp for a few years.
0:21:00 – Speaker 2
Okay.
0:21:01 – Speaker 3
And so we’re kind of working on releasing a base amp Nice and it’s. You know, it’s kind of slow going, like I, I, I kind of made it for I don’t know if you know the band Fugazi, oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely yeah. So Joe, joe Lally from Joe Lally and Brendan from Fugazi, now playing a band called the Mustetics. Okay, and they came through on tour and they wanted me to like backline, you know their Northwest kind of like of their tour and it was really cool because I’m a big fan.
but they asked for a base amp and I didn’t have one other than this weird thing that I made for a bandmate, and Joe fell in love with it. He’s like can we make something like this for for me? I was like, oh yeah, totally You’re. You’re Joe, lally, yeah.
0:21:49 – Speaker 2
I was going to say, if I say no, someone’s going to kill me.
0:21:53 – Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, those guys are so humble that they were shocked that I would even make them anything.
0:22:00 – Speaker 2
Wow, yeah, wow, that’s really cool to hear.
0:22:04 – Speaker 3
Oh, they’re, they’re, they’re, so they’re. They’re pretty cool guys.
0:22:07 – Speaker 2
Dude, they’re freaking awesome. That band, fugazi, is amazing. Like and I mentioned that to so many people, they’re like who I’m just like? Oh my God, how do you not know this band? But oh yeah, that’s another amazing story. Like, see, you know, you got Robert Keely getting into McPetals. You have Jolie making you, having you make bass amps. I mean, I wonder what else the universe is going to send you where to make the oh it’s.
0:22:33 – Speaker 3
it’s been a nonstop onslaught, stuff exactly like that, and I get to sit here for all day and tell you like all the amazing, like lucky or providential things that you know have have helped us out Like we get way more than we deserve.
0:22:52 – Speaker 2
That’s awesome.
0:22:53 – Speaker 3
So I mean awesome.
0:22:54 – Speaker 2
Yeah, no, it’s very cool. Is there anything you want to mention? Anything else that kind of wrap it up here? It’s obviously, is it Benson ampscom? Is the website right? Yeah, Benson ampscom.
0:23:06 – Speaker 3
Yeah, I mean we have like a. Yeah, I guess I should publicly apologize for a waitlist.
0:23:11 – Speaker 2
Oh well, I think everyone’s expecting that. Honestly, yeah, yeah.
0:23:15 – Speaker 3
So it’s very hard to get the amps, and there’s not that many on the use market. So yeah, well, I feel that’s a good problem for you. I feel really bad, though, because if people first hear that, you know, if people are first hearing my company now and they’re like, oh my gosh, you know, I’d like to order an amp, and they’re emailing us on the website, I’m like, uh yeah give me eight months. No, no, no, no, no it’s more like 10, 10 years. Wow, dude. Wow it’s, it’s dumb yeah.
Wow, wow, I mean people can still get amps through, like if they order it through a dealer, maybe, or reverbcom. Sometimes there’s stuff, sure there’s nothing on reverb right now but like and everyone’s know, I will put stuff on reverbcom to just in terms of, like a list of interests.
0:23:58 – Speaker 2
It’s like it’s so long. Yeah, that’s a good problem, man. Good congratulations.
0:24:04 – Speaker 3
It’s a good problem, but it’s. It’s a little embarrassing when people are like. I wanted to nap, yeah.
0:24:09 – Speaker 2
Yeah, sorry, dude, like you and lots of other people. But, no, that’s. I mean that’s great, is there? I mean, obviously there’s youtube videos and stuff from people to here I’ll kind of people playing your amps and stuff, so they can check that out too obviously and then you’re obviously, and all the other social media sites and what not to.
0:24:28 – Speaker 3
So yeah, yeah, except for twitter. I don’t love twitter.
0:24:31 – Speaker 2
Yeah that that Social media is not a blind person scheme. I’ll tell you that.
0:24:36 – Speaker 3
I can imagine.
0:24:38 – Speaker 2
And especially twitter. Imagine looking at a twitter post. Being blind, like my computer talks, so I can, I could do anything a sighted person can do. But imagine hearing like garbly goop of, like a tweet, it’s like hashtag this and there’s so many like abbreviations for everything, like what it’s like twitter talk and you’re like I have no idea what the heck people are even saying. You know it’s like goodness gracious.
0:25:01 – Speaker 3
Can I ask you something?
0:25:02 – Speaker 2
Oh yeah, sure.
0:25:03 – Speaker 3
Do you like what? What is your experience? What is the blind person’s experience of clickbait articles?
0:25:09 – Speaker 2
uh, well, I guess if the headline catches you, you can click on it. But, like I, I have a technology background and online marketing In the background.
So I I don’t that, I don’t, I don’t fall for that, but you can tell you can tell pretty quick, yeah, yeah, just by kind of how headlines are written or what they say, like yeah, not, I don’t think so and honestly I would imagine you know Most blind people, at least at me, for me, not that I want would want to speak for Blind people, you know, and in general or whatever, but for me I hate probably 99 like news article kind of sites anyways, where click usually only because they’re so full of you know all those freaking ads and everything my screen reader gets bogged down.
Yeah, yeah it doesn’t know how to deal with anything, and like the website comes down to a crawl and like forget it, like I don’t even care.
0:26:05 – Speaker 3
That’s what I was asking because you know they’re just. You know, I it’s not like I read a bunch of clickbait or anything. Yeah, yeah and anyone with a brain can tell what it is. But right, right, you know, it’s just. I’ve been through a couple. It’s like oh my god, you know ads keep popping up. The thing just refreshed randomly. It’s like, exactly.
0:26:21 – Speaker 2
Yeah, or the article is like oh, it’s 20 pages long, you know, and like each paragraph is on a page or whatever, and you’re like forget this. Like there are some browser Uh extensions that will take articles that are on like multi page, like you know, 15, 20 page things, and put it all in one long page. Like there are browser extensions that’ll do that, but getting to browser extensions is impossible, being a blind person, so that’s.
0:26:51 – Speaker 3
Whatever decide to pursue clickbaiting seriously, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll ask, with that extension exactly.
0:27:00 – Speaker 2
But, chris man, I appreciate your time, I appreciate all the work you’ve put into Benson amps because, like I said, it’s this day and age and we live in.
it’s just awesome to To see people that have that drive to get it done and like and look what happens, like when you start like you know you said this kind of off, you know, before the interview, like I’m not a like business person, I don’t you know, do this or that, but it’s like you started doing the thing that you love their one to do and then, during your path and your journey, you know, this guy gets put in front of you. This guy, you know this person and before you know it, here you are. You know, and I just love, I just love that. You know, people just have to kind of take action and start moving forward right.
0:27:39 – Speaker 3
Yeah, I totally agree.
0:27:40 – Speaker 2
Yeah, and and again, that’s that’s what we want to do her tornado people. Just take that first step. There’s something inside of you that’s driving you crazy. You want to, you want to do something, you want to get something done. There’s something you can hear, or whatever it is, and just embrace that storm inside of you, take that first step and get it done. And uh, chris, again, thanks so much for coming on. I appreciate your time and ever, and you know, and all in all of this, and uh, thank you so much.
0:28:04 – Speaker 3
Thanks for having me on and very nice to meet you.
0:28:06 – Speaker 2
I appreciate it. Everyone thanks for listening and downloading and don’t forget to embrace your story.
0:28:13 – Speaker 1
Tornado with Jonathan Nadeau. If you haven’t yet, please subscribe now. See your first to hear new episodes with more stories of inspiration about the highs and lows of life and how embracing the storm Is so much more fulfilling of a life than being crushed by the weight of the world. And until then, we hope you’re inspired to do something, whether it’s creating, participating or learning, whatever leads you to your personal passion.
